“my thoughts on tattoos”
August 23, 2007
Tattoos: I don’t have one. I don’t plan on getting one. I think it is cute when Koby gets a temporary one. I wish, however, that whenever people tell other people that getting a tattoo is wrong they would quit quoting Leviticus 19. Yes, you can believe that tattoos are not a good idea or that getting one assures your future as a criminal, but please quit putting your lack of correct biblical interpretation on display by using Leviticus 19 as support for your personal conviction.
Tattoos(2): If you get a tattoo in a biblical language you don’t read or write, please do yourself the service of knowing where in the Bible the verses are that have that word or words in it.
Me: “What does that tattoo say?” You: “ummmm……, it is from the bible and means ummmmmmm…..you know, Jesus freak.” Me: “What is the name of one person you have shared the gospel with in the past month?” You: “ummmmmmmmm” Me: “Jesus freak?”
Tattoos (3): If the reason you want to get a tattoo is so that people will ask you what it means and then you can tell them you are a Christian, you have a really sorry Christian life. Save yourself some money, go and buy a cheesy Christian t-shirt and wear it until someone asks you what it is all about.
Tattoos (4): I have a friend with tattoos. Someone recently acosted him because of his tribal markings. When I am around this person, I don’t ever notice his tattoos, because his love for the Bible and the ways of Jesus always get in the way. Me: “stinkin’ love…”
Note: Please don’t waste your time commenting in an attempt to convince me of the rightness or wrongness of tattoos. Instead, comment and tell me how many times in the past week you ate too much in one sitting, or how you missed an opportunity to give away one of your cars, or how you are tired because you were up so late praying for Lindsay Lohan and Paris Hilton, or…
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1.
Michael | August 23, 2007 at 4:22 pm
OK. No comment about tattoos (but I completely agree with your comment about biblical interpretation).
To support random thoughts, think about this. A smart person is smart enough to know he’s smart. A dumb person is often too dumb to know he’s dumb, so he thinks he’s smart, but he’s not. So both of them think they’re smart, but only one is really smart and the other is dumb.
So here’s my question: Do you think you’re smart? If you do, is it because you are smart and you know it, or because you’re actually too dumb to know how dumb you are?
How do you answer that question? There’s only one way to solve this problem. You take a test. That is, you need an outside, objective standard to resolve the issue.
This illustrates the problem of psychological confidence. Most people feel they’re right about what they believe. But everyone’s obviously not right. Some people are right and some are wrong. So how do you know the difference when each feels just as certain he’s correct as the other does?
The answer: You need more than internal psychological confidence. You need outside evidence. That’s why careful Christians don’t just have “faith.” They have convictions. They have beliefs that are anchored to objective evidence because they know the dangers of putting too much faith in mere psychological confidence.
2.
Michael | August 23, 2007 at 4:33 pm
OK, you asked about eating too much in one setting…
I once saw a sign in a health food restaurant that read, “You are what you eat.” So I pointed out to the waitress that this was true only if you are identical to (the same thing as) your body.
Further, if you are what you eat, then you couldn’t be something until you’ve eaten something. But you can’t eat something until you are something. So you must be something before you eat something. Therefore, it’s not true that you are what you eat.
The waitress looked a me and said, “You’ll have to talk to the manager.”
3.
Mark Triplett | August 23, 2007 at 5:20 pm
I also have a friend with tattoos. I admit a bias against folks with them. I think God taught me a lesson with it too. He was teaching me not to judge the book by its cover.
He’s a good and godly man, and I was wrong to have made up my mind about him before I knew him.
Most of the time I don’t see them, but sometimes I do and it surprises me that I still haven’t totally learned the lesson.
A curious thing about Lev. 19, there is the command not to tattoo, but a verse or 2 before that one, God commands us not to cut our hair or shave our beards. How are we to square which commands we follow and which ones we do not? I’ve done both, does that make me just as bad as my friend that has a couple of tattoos?
Just a question….
4.
russellcravens | August 23, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Michael,
I appreciate your skill in logic. May God prosper your thinking…
I think if “you are what you eat” is true, then most people are trans fats.
5.
russellcravens | August 23, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Mark,
Yes, you are just as bad as someone with a tattoo. I am too, hence….the cross and a crucified Jesus. His righteousness (non-bad) was credited to me. So, here I am “chosen, royal, holy.” Now, off to “declare the glory of the one called me out of darkness.” I think…
6.
andrewminchew | August 24, 2007 at 2:01 pm
i think i’d mostly be calories. i like michaels logic. funny story
also, i like this new theme. “chaotic soul” was wearing on me a bit.
7.
mattsetliffe | August 24, 2007 at 4:27 pm
A-frikin-men….I’m a little worn out on the church spending time bantering about issues such as tattoos when the bible does not speak directly to it. What the Bible does speak directly to is our need to care for widows and orphans…for as James says this is true religion. Nobody has ever come to me as a minister complaining that we are not doing enough for single moms or orphans. Usually it is stuff like tattoos or the current length and style of my hair. If someone came to me angered about our lack of care for orphans, simgle moms, or poverty in Houston…there is the possobility I would speak in tongues and then kiss them (JK)!!!
8.
aaronivey.com | August 25, 2007 at 3:58 am
wait, is that snake swimming through a gigantic skull and crossbones on my back ok?
9.
mattsetliffe | August 25, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Amen…nuff said…hows that.
10.
Mark Triplett | August 27, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Matt, if anyone complains about the length of your hair or my hair. someone has got a real problem!
It’s amazing that we worry so much about the wrapping paper, and so little about what’s in the box.
On Christmas, we throw away the wrapping paper and keep what’s in the box! The exciting thing about life is finding out what’s inside someone, the present. I could wrap a diamond ring for my wife in a grocery sack and it would take nothing away from the ring’s value! How precious is that person to the Lord regardless of whats on the outside.
11.
Mark G. | August 27, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Ah, traditions…. Isn’t that what this is all about? Church tradition? Denomination tradition? Personal tradition? Russell and Matt hit the nail on the head! So much Scripture is taken out of context. Are we, as Christ followers, to be about tattoos, music, worship styles OR about reaching people for Christ?
It’s really funny when people quote bits and pieces from the Old Testament, but have never studied it and don’t believe all that it says. Yet, some will use it as biblical “proof” to support their view. I highly recommend that people read 1 Corinthians 8:1-13.
We’re so blessed and spoiled in America… do you think the people who are dying for the sake of Christ – people who risk their lives to worship Christ in many countries around the globe are concerned about tattoos? or styles of worship? or genres of music? Give me a break… While the church in America debates such things as tattoos, music, etc. people around us are looking for something real. Something they can honestly believe in. How we live is what they see, not what’s on our skin.
I fall so short of what Christ would have me be….we should immerse ourselves in the Word of God and let the Holy Spirit give us the proper interpretation. Be open to His leading and will for our lives – be like Christ.
12.
mattsetliffe | August 27, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Mark Goeman is so cool…good word man. Mark T. i see your point with the wrapping paper, but my wife actually keeps the papaer and recycles it. We could start using grocery bags though.
13.
Michael | August 27, 2007 at 3:04 pm
The Word of God can never mean what it was never intended to mean.
14.
Michael | August 27, 2007 at 3:20 pm
One last comment from me (I think – the discussion interesting so who knows)about tattoos, et. al. and Scripture…
We have no liberty to promote a meaning that cannot be defended by the words IN THEIR CONTEXT and then baptize our error with Holy Spirit language.
15.
Mark Triplett | August 27, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Mark G., Only once in my life, I’m ashamed to say, I’ve had someone ask, “What’s different about you? When bad things happen, you don’t fly off the handle and start cursing the world.”
That should be an everyday happening! We shouldn’t have to really say anything, we should be so close to the Lord and His Word, that His light shines through us. We should stand out no matter what the outside looks like.
The finest wrapping paper can’t help a bad gift.
Matt, just wait till your little one is about 3! Recycling often becomes a non-issue at that age!
16.
russellcravens | August 27, 2007 at 3:48 pm
And…The text means what it meant when it was meant to mean something.
17.
michael | August 29, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Nice rejoinder. I like it.
18.
Michael | August 29, 2007 at 4:42 pm
How about…
“A text without a context is just a pretext for whatever you want it to mean” – Ben Witherington
19.
Starr | August 29, 2007 at 10:06 pm
I went through a (short) phase when I wanted a “star” tattoo. For obvious reasons. But I’m so glad that I just kept imagining Jonathan’s face, looking at me like I was a complete idiot, if I had done such a thing. Imagining the look on his face kept me from the tattoo parlor chair, even as I watched my friends get inked up. Those are my thoughts on tattoos.
20.
jacobeck | August 30, 2007 at 3:17 am
“and… the text means what it meant when it was meant to mean something”
russell:
i think i know what you mean by your clever play on words. i would suggest a little further, that we are notorious for reading things into scripture in light of our understanding of events, cultural milieus, and scientific/sociological developments that were sometimes 1000s of years away from developing within the original authors’ cultural context.
thats why i’ve got a “God Bless America and if You don’t like it Get out” tattoo on my arm.
21.
JC | August 30, 2007 at 6:48 pm
I always laugh about the guys in HighSchool who got Disney characters ‘flipping the bird’ on their biceps. How Stupid do they feel now?
22.
russellcravens | August 30, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Jacob,
Yes, so every person has a responsibility to understand and believe the Bible in the context within which it was originally written. My experience has been that those who reject verbel plenary inspiration reject a conservative view of historical/gramattical/contextual interpretation which I would suggest is the most appropriate way to understand what the Bible originally meant. Of course, the application today can sometimes be different because we live in a very different time.
Starr and JC, I am glad I didn’t “go through with it” too. Well, other than that large tattoo of Mother Theresa on my back.
Michael, great quote.
23.
Michael | August 30, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Do you take the Bible literally?
This is a question frequently asked about biblical interpretation. I answer that I try to read the Bible with the precision the writer intended, taking the words the way the writer expected them to be taken. I take the text at its plain meaning unless I have some good reason to do otherwise. When you think about it, this is the basic rule we apply to everything we read: novels, newspapers, periodicals and poems.
Ironically, as Evangelicals we pride ourselves on being “biblical literalists,” yet sometimes feel comfortable fleeing the plain, literal sense of the passage whenever “the Spirit leads.” This, I think, is a big mistake.
24.
Greg Masone | August 31, 2007 at 10:02 am
Michael,
I personally believe that the Bible is literally true, but not always true literally. I have no problem sweeping away traditional interpretations if the newer product is closer to the text’s original meaning. The informed Christian needs to work to figure all that out by study and research. I discourage people from relying on the “leading of the Spirit” when it comes to stuff like this, as I’ve found it to be misused as a cover for laziness in regards to doing research.
I also think taking the text at it’s plain meaning by default can be a dangerous path to tread. In English, the text may seem simple and straight-forward, but in the original languages and cultures you may have a meaning that completely tosses the “plain meaning” on it’s head.
25.
Michael | September 1, 2007 at 4:26 am
Some think getting a word from God is a substitute for careful Bible study. But it’s bad advice to pray for the Holy Spirit to give you the right interpretation of a text.
Paul said “All scripture is god-breathed,” (2 Tim 3:16), graphe in Greek. The writings are inspired and authoritative, not the interpretation we think the Holy Spirit is giving us. This is why the words should be our focus, not our feelings.
If you think God is telling you something through Scripture that is not connected to the meaning of the words in their context, it can’t be of God because God chose to communicate through language, not around it.
Yes, the Holy Spirit is our teacher, but that means He illuminates what’s already there. All teachers work from a body of information, clarifying it and passing it on. The Holy Spirit does not give new information not in the inspired words. The curriculum, so to speak, is then standardized for all Christians. Every person has equal access to the meaning. There are no private messages in Scripture.
God took pains to give us an objective revelation in the words of the Bible to protect us from subjectivism. When Christians opt for an anointed “reading between the lines” instead of sound exegesis, it actually shows disrespect for God’s objective revelation.
How did all this develop from Tattoos?? I enjoy the discussion and input (and learning) from everybody!
26. incline my heart | September 4, 2007 at 2:23 am
[...] September 4, 2007 Posted by russellcravens under Uncategorized The following post is a continuation of a conversation that began http://russellcravens.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/my-thoughts-on-tattoos/#comments [...]
27.
amearican | October 5, 2007 at 1:26 am
“”Are we, as Christ followers, to be about tattoos, music, worship styles OR about reaching people for Christ?”"
“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” 2 Th 2:3
I am currently in the midst of thinking what the church-fallen-away looks like. It must still be professing “Lord, Lord,” and even some congregations will look like the church of Sardis (’Grand’ as many are panning out to be now; in buildings if not in works) when Christ returns. But, the gospel must reach every creature, so how can a fallen church spread this gospel? A fast-track for sure is to drop everything but the ‘death, burial, and resurrection’ and hit the road. Just recently I asked two individuals to help me hammer out 1 Corinthians 11:1-16, and one of the two hit me with, “its the principle, not the practice;” and, “this point doesn’t hinge on salvation;” then, “your running into legalism;” and further, “what about knowing only Christ and Him crucified;” and maybe more points that I can’t remember now. Yes, to fast-track the gospel, you have to drop any sticky points; like tattoos. What are tattoos? They are the current method to go to the extreme in showing one’s devotion to something; like fashion or bumperstickers – none of those show you care about that subject like a tattoo. Tribal art? I have tribal art on my arm, and what is it or why did I get it? I got it because a) it was/is the thing to do; b) I got tribal because it will still look the same if I see 100 years old; c) it doesn’t stand for anything (brand, trade, whatever), but I get to tell you guys right now that I got one and somehow, in some way, with some people, that makes me part of their circle; it gives me something in common with the person I might not otherwise have something in common with. But the short answer on what are tattoos, in my current opinion, for the Christian, they are simply an unfading sign of our conformity; or more pc, our relavency. Scripture doesn’t have anything to say about tattoos? Aside from direct mentions, do you recall what Ezekiel was shown in the temple (Ezekiel 8:10)? And we say we are His temple? Are our tattoos holy as He is holy? I don’t know, but if you are wondering what I think about my tattoo, I will tell you that it is nothing, as circumcision is nothing. I got the tattoo in my ignorance, and unlike many things my eyes have seen in my previous walk I cannot erase, but good you cannot see, this tattoo is something I cannot erase and is a testimony to where I have come from, and not where I am at: at the parlor getting the latest ‘cool’ on some part of my body. But on arguing over it, I think it is something like when Jesus said, ‘if they are blind, they will fall into a pit; leave them alone.’ But, then at some point, we are to ’snatch them out of the fire.’ And, at what point do we correct our brother who has erred (if he has in this or any other matter)? It seems the safest route is to let each man do what is right in his own eyes and have his own interpretation just so long as the gospel is spread; just so long as the core requirements are met. But is this what is written – how we are called to live? In the arguing, not all is for not, since:
“For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.” 1 Co 11:19
For what its worth, I believe this is how our many denominations and splinter groups came about. In the gospels, I don’t see Jesus point out congregations being saved, but individuals amongst the congregations being saved; the few. Of God’s chosen people, Israel, after rescuing them out of Egypt, only two entered the Promised Land.
“For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.” Heb 2:1-4
I don’t see any spell check here, so, this is as is. And, I know I’m a dummy, but I suppose if God can use a donkey, he can use a dummy.
“It is finished.”
“”Ironically, as Evangelicals we pride ourselves on being “biblical literalists,” yet sometimes feel comfortable fleeing the plain, literal sense of the passage whenever “the Spirit leads.” This, I think, is a big mistake.”"